"The key isn’t finding the correct one so much as it’s understanding what these styles mean, and what they can do." Well said. Artists ought to be opinionated, it's a sign of their craftsmanship and originality. But we as audiences shouldn't be granted that privilege so easily, although we can certainly develop our own preferences alongside our increasing understanding of the medium.
Miyazaki's growing distaste for montage strongly reminds me of Tarkovsky's own rejection of Eisenstein's theory, so much so that I think it might have been an influence as well. I recommend the chapter "Time, rhythm and editing" from his book Sculpting in Time if you haven't read it, and maybe revisit Miyazaki's thoughts on Stalker.
"I reject the principles of 'montage cinema' because they do not allow the film to continue beyond the edges of the screen: they do not allow the audience to bring personal experience to bear on what is in front of them on film. [...] (in October) The construction of the image becomes an end in itself, and the author proceeds to make a total onslaught on the audience, imposing upon them his own attitude to what is happening. [...]
I see it as my professional task to create my own, distinctive flow of time, and convey in the shot a sense of its movement [...]. Assembly, editing, disturbs the passage of time, interrupts it and simultaneously gives it something new. The distortion of time can be a means of giving it rhythmical expression. Sculpting in time! But the deliberate joining of shots of uneven time-pressure must not be introduced casually; it has to come from necessity, from an organic process going on in the material as a whole. The minute the organic process of the transitions is disturbed, the emphasis of the editing starts to obtrude; it is laid bare, it leaps to the eye. If time is slowed down or speeded up artificially, and not in response to an endogenous development, if the change of rhythm is wrong, the result will be false and strident."
Thanks for this extremely thoughtful comment! We hadn't read Sculpting in Time before, but the quote you highlighted is excellent, and the chapter itself didn't disappoint. You're right about Tarkovsky's criticism: it's very close to the Takahata/Bazin/Miyazaki take. Not sure if Tarkovsky read Bazin himself, but it would make sense if there was a common influence here. His argument for shooting and conveying events as real, even if they're fantastical, is basically the one that Bazin made about The Red Balloon in the '50s.
It all adds another layer to Miyazaki's love of Stalker -- the sense of a kindred spirit, maybe. Definitely a rabbit hole worth exploring further.
Happy to put it on your radar, and that you found it useful. Tarkovsky probably stumbled upon Bazin's writings at some point, he was a student during his heyday as a critic after all and their views seem too close at points (both approved of filmmakers like Bresson, for instance). I definitely think that, while using different words, Takahata/Miyazaki and Tarkovsky were speaking the same language—perhaps the focus on time / space is merely a consequence of the different mediums they were working with.
In regards to the more abstract approach in anime directing spearheaded by Dezaki and the other Tezuka alumni, I think its main influence can be found in the 50s/60s new waves (which broke away but also built upon Bazin's theories) rather than montage cinema in its classical or ideal form, giving editing a more lyrical dimension over the literal, rousing work of Eisenstein & co. Trnka strikes me as a truer flagbearer of that tradition, with the addition of staging from Disney and puppet theatre.
All this also makes me think about a third approach, perhaps best represented by František Vláčil and Sergei Parajanov, which placed movement at the top of the cinematic priorities. I can't really think of an equivalent in animation, maybe metamorphosis as it's a form of movement unique to the medium and can evoke an equally overwhelming feeling.
Great points here! And New Wave cinema definitely made an impact on the Mushi school -- they spoke about it in interviews.
Believe it or not, Eisenstein was another that came up pretty frequently in the anime industry: his ideas seem to have spread a lot in mid-century Japan. Yoshiyuki Tomino is a lifelong follower of his techniques, for example, and Masaaki Osumi cited them as an influence on the original Lupin the 3rd series. Discussion of montage theory wasn't uncommon in the business back then, from what we've seen. That said, Trnka was clearly a student of Eisenstein's work, and took from him more purely than Dezaki did. The New Wave element is prominent in Dezaki's work, especially by the '80s.
The use of all these directing methods in animation is something we'd love to read about further -- there aren't enough books and articles about this stuff. Takahata's Visual Expression of Horus is the best we've seen, but he only goes over filmmaking in part of the book, and there's obviously a lot more to say.
Huh, that's very interesting. It obviously set many basic cinematic rules still in use to this today, but will have to look into some of those comments to really put my finger on how that influence specifically manifested in the work of Tomino and others. This has been a very thought-provoking article and discussion, thanks for your quick and thoughtful replies!
I love these posts so much. My wife and I recently watched Elevator To The Gallows and one of the things that frustrated me is that I knew there was context I was missing due to a lack of historical knowledge on my part. Learning about all the methods and how they were often just as informed by what their practitioners didn't like as much as did like is really fascinating.
Thank you! Glad the piece resonated -- this technical filmmaking stuff is something we love to study as well. New Wave directors like Malle used a bunch of techniques and concepts we didn't even get in to here, but these types of arguments were being had in the French film community even then. The more we learn about the craft, the more we appreciate it!
"The key isn’t finding the correct one so much as it’s understanding what these styles mean, and what they can do." Well said. Artists ought to be opinionated, it's a sign of their craftsmanship and originality. But we as audiences shouldn't be granted that privilege so easily, although we can certainly develop our own preferences alongside our increasing understanding of the medium.
Miyazaki's growing distaste for montage strongly reminds me of Tarkovsky's own rejection of Eisenstein's theory, so much so that I think it might have been an influence as well. I recommend the chapter "Time, rhythm and editing" from his book Sculpting in Time if you haven't read it, and maybe revisit Miyazaki's thoughts on Stalker.
"I reject the principles of 'montage cinema' because they do not allow the film to continue beyond the edges of the screen: they do not allow the audience to bring personal experience to bear on what is in front of them on film. [...] (in October) The construction of the image becomes an end in itself, and the author proceeds to make a total onslaught on the audience, imposing upon them his own attitude to what is happening. [...]
I see it as my professional task to create my own, distinctive flow of time, and convey in the shot a sense of its movement [...]. Assembly, editing, disturbs the passage of time, interrupts it and simultaneously gives it something new. The distortion of time can be a means of giving it rhythmical expression. Sculpting in time! But the deliberate joining of shots of uneven time-pressure must not be introduced casually; it has to come from necessity, from an organic process going on in the material as a whole. The minute the organic process of the transitions is disturbed, the emphasis of the editing starts to obtrude; it is laid bare, it leaps to the eye. If time is slowed down or speeded up artificially, and not in response to an endogenous development, if the change of rhythm is wrong, the result will be false and strident."
Thanks for this extremely thoughtful comment! We hadn't read Sculpting in Time before, but the quote you highlighted is excellent, and the chapter itself didn't disappoint. You're right about Tarkovsky's criticism: it's very close to the Takahata/Bazin/Miyazaki take. Not sure if Tarkovsky read Bazin himself, but it would make sense if there was a common influence here. His argument for shooting and conveying events as real, even if they're fantastical, is basically the one that Bazin made about The Red Balloon in the '50s.
It all adds another layer to Miyazaki's love of Stalker -- the sense of a kindred spirit, maybe. Definitely a rabbit hole worth exploring further.
Happy to put it on your radar, and that you found it useful. Tarkovsky probably stumbled upon Bazin's writings at some point, he was a student during his heyday as a critic after all and their views seem too close at points (both approved of filmmakers like Bresson, for instance). I definitely think that, while using different words, Takahata/Miyazaki and Tarkovsky were speaking the same language—perhaps the focus on time / space is merely a consequence of the different mediums they were working with.
In regards to the more abstract approach in anime directing spearheaded by Dezaki and the other Tezuka alumni, I think its main influence can be found in the 50s/60s new waves (which broke away but also built upon Bazin's theories) rather than montage cinema in its classical or ideal form, giving editing a more lyrical dimension over the literal, rousing work of Eisenstein & co. Trnka strikes me as a truer flagbearer of that tradition, with the addition of staging from Disney and puppet theatre.
All this also makes me think about a third approach, perhaps best represented by František Vláčil and Sergei Parajanov, which placed movement at the top of the cinematic priorities. I can't really think of an equivalent in animation, maybe metamorphosis as it's a form of movement unique to the medium and can evoke an equally overwhelming feeling.
Great points here! And New Wave cinema definitely made an impact on the Mushi school -- they spoke about it in interviews.
Believe it or not, Eisenstein was another that came up pretty frequently in the anime industry: his ideas seem to have spread a lot in mid-century Japan. Yoshiyuki Tomino is a lifelong follower of his techniques, for example, and Masaaki Osumi cited them as an influence on the original Lupin the 3rd series. Discussion of montage theory wasn't uncommon in the business back then, from what we've seen. That said, Trnka was clearly a student of Eisenstein's work, and took from him more purely than Dezaki did. The New Wave element is prominent in Dezaki's work, especially by the '80s.
The use of all these directing methods in animation is something we'd love to read about further -- there aren't enough books and articles about this stuff. Takahata's Visual Expression of Horus is the best we've seen, but he only goes over filmmaking in part of the book, and there's obviously a lot more to say.
Huh, that's very interesting. It obviously set many basic cinematic rules still in use to this today, but will have to look into some of those comments to really put my finger on how that influence specifically manifested in the work of Tomino and others. This has been a very thought-provoking article and discussion, thanks for your quick and thoughtful replies!
Definitely -- really enjoyed it! Thanks again.
Akira is still my favourite. Best of everything story and innovation
Hard to beat it on so many levels… but the depth of the characters in Miyazaki and Satoshi Kons films trump all animation in terms of humanity for me.
Well said. He is another level of sensitivity and expression in animation art form.
I love these posts so much. My wife and I recently watched Elevator To The Gallows and one of the things that frustrated me is that I knew there was context I was missing due to a lack of historical knowledge on my part. Learning about all the methods and how they were often just as informed by what their practitioners didn't like as much as did like is really fascinating.
Thank you! Glad the piece resonated -- this technical filmmaking stuff is something we love to study as well. New Wave directors like Malle used a bunch of techniques and concepts we didn't even get in to here, but these types of arguments were being had in the French film community even then. The more we learn about the craft, the more we appreciate it!
Banger of an article!! 💥 great job 🫶🏽🙌🏽
Ah, really appreciate that! Thanks a ton.